I found this website. It says you can make 42 gallons of biodiesel for about 30 dollars...If you buy 4k in equipment. I wonder if you could buy a kit instead. Still only 1hr of your time a batch and 1 day to make a batch.
http://www.azurebiodiesel.com/
$4,000!! That's a scream! I'll bet there are people
who will pay it. If you are adept at Craig's List it is
possible to build a contained testesterification plant
for about $150...maybe $250 if you are in a hurry.
If you go and buy everything new at retail it comes
to about $400. Biolyle is doing it. His online video
shows the old system. He showed me his new
system. Same as the one used by girlmark. Do a
search. Pretty interesting. A friend of mine is making
about 100 gallons in a batch, but I'm thinking 32
gallons would be better. The average person pays
about eighty cents to make a gallon of diesel (glad
I'm not average!). Of course the hardest part is
reporting all those taxes. Yes, they really are due,
and no there aren't exemptions...well, I did find one.
It's a reduction on the B&O tax. Trouble is that
qualifying for the exemption costs more than the
money saved. One more thing...it is a mess! If
you're careful and try not to spill anything and use a
closed system it is still a mess. One good thing I
have discovered about diesel, you can buy it at the
pump. Just my two cents.
-Rick
Should have mentioned...you really don't have to report the taxes,
just pay the fines. Think it is $2,500 plus the revenuers will go back
and compute your usage for the period you didn't pay the tax. That
too is due. The big problem is trying to figure out just what to pay,
and who it goes to. The department of revenue is not able to figure
out what your tax liability is or assist you in any way (been there!!)
but if you don't pay they will know exactly how much you should have
paid! They are maddening!!!
Here's that link to the girl mark "Appleseed Processor"
http://www.biodieselcommunity.org/appleseedprocessor/
I'm glad you mentioned having to pay taxes on home made biodiesel!
For some reason I was thinking it was like making your own alcohol.
As long as you make under a certain amount of gallons for you own use you don't have to pay taxes. Yikes :shock: was I wrong.
Rick,
Did you ever get a strait answer on how much $$$ per gallon for taxes?
Jeff
(Laughing) No!
Here's a good one....
The tax is not computed by the gallon...
it is computed by the total amount produced
and is due at the time of manufacture. The
total amount is divided into gallons and then
the tax on that amount is due. ?????
Only a beaurocrat could ever come up with
that form of tax schedule!
Sadly, I'll be having more contact with the
State, federal, and local clowns to try and
do my best to be legal.
I may go in and say I accidentally used off
road diesel and now need to be honest and
pay the taxes. Could you please tell me how
much I owe? I'll find out how they came up
with the actual amount then say; "Just kidding!"
At least I'll know how much to pay on what I
produce.
-Rick
Just went through my records.
If you are in the State of Washington, your B&O tax is computed at
the rate of .00484 x the value of the product produced. For me this
is less than $10. If I can have my fuel tested and certified (what-
ever that will cost!) then I will qualify for a reduced tax rate. My
tax would then be about $4.50. This has to be reported on the
consumer use tax report form.
There is also reporting to the DMV Motor Vehicle fuel tax division,
and the State DoL.
There is also State compliance regs for biodiesel manufacturers
(bulletin), and then federal and local compliance (tax). UGH!
Making biodiesel is messy and time consuming, but really not all that
bad when compared to the paperwork
-Rick
Oh wait, wait, it gets better! :wink:
Here's the direct quote pasted from one of
the many comical replies. These guys could
easily write for Leno. Lotsa good laughs. :x
"The use tax is not paid per gallon but rather it is based on the fair market value of the product produced. Thus, the amount of use tax that would be due depends on the total value of the product produced and the local tax rate for your manufacturing site. There is no minimum amount. If you produce any biodiesel fuel, you will owe use tax on the value of the amount produced."
Just remember. the price per gallon is not important, it is the value of
the product that is important.
Last time I checked the value of the product was displayed at the gas station as price per gallon. :wink:
Collective heads of knuckle. :x
-Rick
Hey gang:
I am new to the study of living more self sufficiently.
Am I reading this right?!
If I am on my own land, making fuel for a generator on my own land, to serve the needs of my family (again, on my own land)...
I have to pay taxes on the fuel I produce with my own hands on my own land for my own use!!!???
Can this be true? Please, say it isn't so!
John
I checked, hope I'm wrong, doesn't
appear that I'm wrong. If you make
biodiesel, there is no road tax for
your tractor or generator.
HOWEVER...
There is still B&O tax and use tax!
Make it for your own use.
Use it on your own property.
Pay the tax! :x
That's like cutting a tree on your
property and making a chair from
it, then paying tax on the value
(don't worry, they'll tell you what the
chair is worth) of that chair! Maybe I
should just be quiet...don't want to give
the beaurocRATs any ideas.
Washington State is just incredible!
-Rick
Tax his land, tax his wage,
Tax his bed in which he lays.
Tax his tractor, tax his mule,
Teach him taxes is the rule.
Tax his cow, tax his goat,
Tax his pants, tax his coat.
Tax his ties, tax his shirts,
Tax his work, tax his dirt.
Tax his chew, tax his smoke,
Teach him taxes are no joke.
Tax his car, tax his ass
Tax the roads he must pass.
Tax his tobacco, tax his drink,
Tax him if he tries to think.
Tax his booze, tax his beers,
If he cries, tax his tears.
Tax his bills, tax his gas,
Tax his notes, tax his cash.
Tax him good and let him know
That after taxes, he has no dough.
If he hollers, tax him more,
Tax him until he's good and sore.
Tax his coffin, tax his grave,
Tax the sod in which he lays.
Put these words upon his tomb,
"Taxes drove me to my doom!"
And when he's gone, we won't relax,
We'll still be after the inheritance TAX!
Author Unknown
I still have the first dollar I ever made.
The government has the rest.
Author Unknown
-Rick
Now here is some exciting reading (crystal clear - NOT!) from the IRS on the subject of taxing fuels: http://www.irs.gov/irb/2005-02_IRB/ar14.html#d0e2528
And some help (re: laws and incentives in all states) from your friends in the US Department of Energy: http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/laws/incen_laws.html
I am left confused. Where is the logic in charging me a tax for using something I make myself? The more I read, the angrier I get.
If the founding fathers woke up today and read this stuff, I do not beleive they would be pleased at all!
Rick: Your poem apparently rings far more true than I would have imagined.
John
Now here is some exciting reading (crystal clear - NOT!) from the IRS on the subject of taxing fuels: http://www.irs.gov/irb/2005-02_IRB/ar14.html#d0e2528
And some help (re: laws and incentives in all states) from your friends in the US Department of Energy: http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/laws/incen_laws.html
I am left confused. Where is the logic in charging me a tax for using something I make myself? The more I read, the angrier I get.
If the founding fathers woke up today and read this stuff, I do not beleive they would be pleased at all!
Rick: Your poem apparently rings far more true than I would have imagined.
John
speaking of taxes, did you know that not one single state ever ratified the sixteenth amendment to the constitution allowing the income tax. So basically the income tax is a fraud perpetuated on the american people.
Colby:
I had heard that. Only it was in promotional material being used by someone offering a very costly 'program'. I have also heard conflicitng information from other sources with a vested interest in the subject (our friends in 'gomnt').
So, I was left not knowing what to think. The folks selling the program were saying they could help a person avoid taxes and be on sound legal ground. The folks at the IRS painted these folks as the worst kind of villians (what a surprise) and started targeting them for 'special attention'.
Is there an unbiased source of information on this subject?
I don't mind paying some to share the costs of basic things we, in our communities and this country, have an interest in (if we can avoid tremendous waste). I just get riled up by taxation that makes no common sense - like something I make on my own property for my own use! It just 'taint right'!!
Sounds like I will have to 'read up' and spend more time with our duly elected officials once I free up my time in the next 24 months. I am beginning to understand Skip's move more and more.
I would hate to have my plans for economic freedom spoiled by unanticipated taxation.
John
I have a hard time finding anything that someone wouldn't call biased. I have read it in several books. Probably the most unbiased place I heard it was on "little known facts" on the radio. The web site that I know of that lays it out the best is http://www.constitution.org/ica_ltnw.htm or http://www.ny.lp.org/issues/tax_symposium.htm
There was a guy in las vegas that wrote a book on how to get out of paying income taxes using the tax code, and he even tried to get them to prosecute him for tax evasion, but they had tried that before and he had beaten them badly. So they sued him and found a judge that ruled that he couldn't sell his book. I remeber at the time that it had been in the national news several times.
Has anyone tried this:
http://www.dieselsecret.com/index.html
I'm thinking about buying the manual/video/first bottle of additive just to see how realistic it is.
Mr Diesel designed his engine to run on peanut oil as it was cheap at the time. You can take just about any older diesel engine and make it run on almost any type of vegatable oil or cooking oil. It's a bit messy but you can take the used cooking oil from a chinese resturant or Mickey D's, strain it and then put in to your tank. Now there are some things to consider. #1-do you want to smell like french fries or chow mein going down the road. #2-make sure you have plenty of fuel filters for your engine. #3- storeage of your fuel.
If you Google, you will find a few sites that go into more detail as what you need to do to make used oil a fuel for your diesel engine. I have tried a few mixes and all worked, some with less power than others. I run older Mercedes 617 Turbos, a very simple engine compared to the newer electronic monsters but I guess they will work also. Chris
Has anyone tried this:http://www.dieselsecret.com/index.html
I'm thinking about buying the manual/video/first bottle of additive just to see how realistic it is.
Geez, if it's for real, I sure do like the sound of it. (or is it the smell?) I'm just a little nervous about feeding it to my $8000 Cummins engine if there are long term problems. I wonder if they address shrinking of the injector pump O-rings with their additive? But heck, half-a-buck per gallon (though I'd bet the farm it will cost you more than that to make, but even if it cost $1, it's still a good deal, not to mention you're shoving it to the big OC's) plus filters every once in a while sure is attractive.
BTW, I just filled up the other day for $2.85 the other day and was cussing the whole time it was going in. Something about seeing the dollars adding up quick and the gallons not, makes me a wee bit perturbed. :x
Actually, you don't need the additive. Once the engine, fuel
line, and monoglyceride tank are up to temperature, you
just switch the valve and keep on runnin' down the road.
Before shut-down, switch back to a ring hydrocarbon to flush
the lines and injectors. Don't know what the stuff is they
are selling, but my guess is that it's naptha or napthalene.
In the summer (at least summers around here!) there is
no need to preheat, but the ring hydrocarbon start-up is easier
than with just straight fryer oil. Also, no conversion is
needed for summer use of fryer oil, it's the methanol in
the biodiesel that is corrosive.
On manufacturer said that fossil oil diesel is like powder
propellant, the biodiesel is like black powder. One gives
a hard kick, the other a forceful shove. If you have ever
shot with black powder you know what I'm talking about.
Biodiesel makes the engine sound nicer too. Not the
clatter and rattle.
-Rick
Here's a link discussing DSE. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html#blends Now I'm even more uneasy about feeding it to my Cummins, but I probably wouldn't hesitate feeding a Listeroid powered generator this stuff.
Running diesels on WVO (Waste Vegetable Oil) is no joke. Check out this site and forum, these guys are very into WVO diesel trucks and cars.
Around here, there are small home-brewers as well as a few professional outfits that make and sell the stuff. You can find the odd diesel VW from the 60's or 70's as well as this year's $48.000+ import running on it. A guy down the road does run his dodge truck on it (4 or 5 year old diesel).
All in all, it is not difficult to make the stuff yourself. If you have a mind to, I encourage you to do it. Probably your only two concerns will be, source of oil - will you use recycled or find a source for new production?; and how to manage the cost of methanol in the process - which can be absorbed through volume or reclamation, or both.
-A
Has anyone tried this:http://www.dieselsecret.com/index.html
I'm thinking about buying the manual/video/first bottle of additive just to see how realistic it is.
04-18-06
Now that crude just topped $70.00/barrel, has anyone tried this. I'm considering purchasing the mix. Even if you ran the BD on occasion, you would have to save money. This site states no conversion necessary to run the BD. Take a look at the site.
Tom
nobleknight
class 01-15-05
Hmmmm.... Sounds like there is a lot of controversy over the whole topic. Let me start by saying that I have almost have my biodiesel reactor complete and do plan on putting up to a 25% mix into my 2002 F250. Although I'm going to make darn sure that the fuel is washed very well to ensure that the methanol is out of the biodiesel. Methonal will attack the rubbers in the system if they are not the right kinds. The rubber will turn soft and eventually leak. Not only will this go for the hoses but also the gaskets in the whole fuel system.
Now that I've got the bad stuff out, the good point is that biodiesel is actually better for your engine than diesel fuel. But you need to make sure that it meets ASTM D 6751.
I am an auditor for the National Biodiesel Board for the new quality standard of BQ-9000. I also work at John Deere and have worked at Cummins in their fuel systems group so I understand fuel systems and diesel engines. Be careful on being penny wise and dollar foolish. I do not speak for any OEM but I know that on my vehicle, I am going to make very sure that the fuel is in excellent condition and the fuel system has been protected in the appropriate manner so I don't have any issues. It may cost a little up front but I will not be broke down when it's 40 below. Here are my plans.
- Use only washed biodiesel that meets the ASTM standard
- Replace the fuel lines with a viton hose material (Ford freaks out when you ask them about biodiesel and I suspect that the hoses will not be compatible.) Other companies like VW probably have already addressed this.
- Not mix more than 20 - 30 percent in my system until I have all the hoses changed. There are many studies showing that up to 20% shouldn't harm anything in your vehicle. Once again, I'm not speaking for any OEM here. This is from personal research.
- Add a heated tank and / or in line fuel heater so I reduce the winter issues (Wisconsin) It was either that or move south....
- I'll try to use fresh biodiesel. (Suck off the top of the tank, not the bottom) It has a tendency to settle out more glycerin and water over time. You don't want to plug up the filters if you don't have to.
With that, you should be pretty safe. The National Biodiesel Board is working diligently to get all the producers and marketers of biodiesel to a state of producing consistent biodiesel so there shouldn't be any fuel issues at the pump.
Hope that helps....
I have talked to some local makers of biodiesel who gone through the process of licensing to sell fuel. They have spent close to $5000 in licensing to be able to sell. They have checked tax liability and say that homebrewers, as they are sometimes called, are exempt from paying the road tax for the personal use of up to 1000 gallons per year.
04-25-06
I ordered the product from dieselsecret.com. I guess I'll find out how easy/hard it is to make. Their product requires no vehicle conversion, and it claims no harm to fuel pump or injectors. I'll keep everyone posted with my progress. At a whopping $108.50 per fill up, I'm willing to try.
Tom
nobleknight
class 01-15-05
I'm learning how to make biodiesel and how to assay it for purity. Stuff burns a lot cleaner than dino-fuel and will clean out the residue in the fuel system and engine.
Have you looked at the web site diselsecret.com? It seems to be the simplest system I reviewed. Let me know your thoughts.
Tom
nobleknight
class 01-15-05
04-27-06
Hey,
Diesel Secret is the only process I looked at that claims no problems with lubricity to the fuel pump/injectors. I'm willing to try it. I used to have to pay to have my fry oil hauled away at my restaurant. Now, the reverse may hold true. People may want to get paid to let you picked it up. Oh well, I'll just have to see.
Tom
nobleknight
class 01-15-05
Some systems burn straight veggy oil using some dual tank system to allow starting from dino diesel and heat to prevent the viscosity of veggy oil from causing problems in the system.
Otherwise the transesterification process requires NaOH (lye), methanol, heating and mixing and ultimately allowing it to settle. This creates fuel that can be run directly in the tank (by product of glycerol).
Don't know what's behind Diesel Secret. Can't make comments only that there are a bunch of companies or individuals selling things with claims that seem too good to be true.
Biodiesel is almost for sale in Bel Air, Maryland. A local lawnmower repair shop owner Duvall's is making it as we write. He has been running it in his 2002 Dodge Ram w/ Cummings, he has not changed fuel filter for 150 gal so far. He is waiting to see how long it takes before it starts spitting. He also has a 2006 Dodge that he is running bio. As soon as he feels he has the right mixed he will be selling for about 50 cents a gallon lower that regular diesel fuel. I will try it soon. Chris
I ordered the product from dieselsecret.com. I guess I'll find out how easy/hard it is to make. Their product requires no vehicle conversion, and it claims no harm to fuel pump or injectors. I'll keep everyone posted with my progress. At a whopping $108.50 per fill up, I'm willing to try.
So, did you get it? Does it work? Did your truck explode or anything? Enquiring minds want to know!
Jed
06-16-06
LOL No my truck did not explode! I'm actually still buying parts. I think the production equipment should cost no more than $225.00. I feel that this is inexpensive. Some systems cost well more than this. In a solar living catalog, I saw one system totaling $9,000.00! How could you realize a return on your investment.
Anyways, as soon as it is together, I will post. Thanks for the interest.
Tom
nobleknight
class 01-15-05
dbtoo,
No, I'm about one hour from the Snowflake turn off in Heber. I could see the smoke real good on Monday. I guess over 50 miles away. For you it must be a 100 miles? I was making pasta, and could smell smoke. I thought one of my machines was giving out. I went outside, and saw the cloud. It must of strecthed all the way to New Mexico.
Tom
nobleknight
class 01-15-05
If you have not looked into this site give it a try.
http://www.hydrogenappliances.com/bioD.html
http://www.hydrogenappliances.com/
I have checked here in NY and if you add any WVO, waste motor oil, or fresh veggy oil to a base of Diesel ( 5%) no taxes are due. NY state and the FED do not tax fuel additives. SO what this means is if you put 5 gallons of diesel in a tank than add the 50 gallons WVO, If you than run it thru the above product you are legal ( in NY ) to use it what ever you want. My brother has used this system for 2 years. He uses filtered crank case oil ( which is free from a local quick lube in the summer, they heat with it during the winter ) and adds it to home heating fuel for his oil furnace. He has made no changes to the factory heater, gets it cleaned as recommended by the factory. At this point he has had no problems. He starts with a 10% base. His tank in stored in the basement so it stays warm. If your tank is outside you may want to add a preheater or use a higher base.
Hope this helps someone.
Brennon
*** As always do your own reseach to confirm tax payment requirements in your area. ***
There are benefits to staying in bed a bit too long in the morning, especially if your radio is tuned to NPR. I missed the beginning of this story during a snooze, but the rest of it was so awesome, I had to go to their web site to check it out.
Click HERE for a link to the article on their web page where you can read more about it and listen to the story and hear country singers literally singing the praises of biodiesel.
What a way to start the morning!
Enjoy,
Louanne
Did anyone post this link?
http://www.b100supply.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_id=95&aff=61585
I searched but didn't get a hit.
Biodiesel is being sold in North Marysville near the Navy Support Facility. I can't remember the name of the place but I've put a couple of tankfuls through my 97 Ford Powerstroke and it's seems to work great. I was advised to change the fuel filter after a couple tanks of biodiesel but I haven't done that yet. The exhaust smells better than regular diesel.
Grow and then make your own biodiesel. A soybean press for home and maybe a small business.
http://www.farmshow.com/issues/30/05/300506.asp
Joined: 2005-01-29